Understanding Consumer Behavior (with Sunny Dublick)

Angela Frank: 00:00:00

Welcome to The Growth Pod. Today on the podcast we have Sunny Dublick who is an award winning marketing specialist and founder of Sunny Dublick Marketing.

Originally from New Jersey, Sunny has spent over 15 years in the marketing and advertising industry working with high profile clients such as the Philadelphia 76ers and Hanes brands, as well as small and medium sized businesses spanning the hospitality, retail and professional services industries. Sunny, welcome to the podcast.

Sunny Dublick: 00:00:30

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Angela Frank: 00:00:33

I am excited for our chat today. You're going to share how we can better understand consumer behavior using the mind state model. And I think this is going to be such a good episode.

But before we get started, can you share a little bit about why it's important to understand consumer behavior?

Sunny Dublick: 00:00:50

Sure. So I think, I mean, marketing, we use all these fancy terms, right? And all consumer behavior is how our customers act.

Because in its essence, everyone in this world is a consumer. You're one, I'm one. Anyone listening to this is one, right? We're all consuming something.

I think the current state of marketing today is a lot of wee, wee, wee I, I, I, which is using the blueprint model of digital ads and emails and social media, kind of what everyone else is doing and impressing that on people, hoping that that marketing works. When you talk about utilizing consumer behavior in your marketing, it's actually going the opposite way.

It's making them the star of the show because ultimately you can have the most amazing business in the world, but if you have no one buying it, you have a really nice hobby. So your consumers are really the driving force of your business, which is why they should be placed first in your marketing.

Angela Frank: 00:01:45

I love that. I think that it's really easy to get caught up in like, this is my business and this is what we do and this is the value that we provide.

But by turning it on its head, like you said, and putting the customer at the center, it changes that whole paradigm. So you use something to understand consumer behavior called the mind state model. Can you share a little bit more about what that is?

Sunny Dublick: 00:02:08

Sure. And I will be completely transparent. This is not mine. It is from a book called Marketing to Mind States, which is absolutely phenomenal.

And if anyone is interested in kind of like furthering getting like learning on this topic, I can't recommend enough. It's honestly just changed my business for the better and is phenomenal.

But essentially a mind state is a heightened state where we're going to rely on our subconscious to make decisions.

And that's a bunch of Fancy kind of speak and I'll back it up and give you a sense of what I mean and kind of the landscape and environment that we live in. I think they say the average consumer, so you, I, anyone listening makes between 35 and 38,000 decisions every single day.

And that's a full time job, right? So we don't have the ability to make all of those consciously. We have to make some of those subconsciously.

So some of them are, you know, what time am I waking up, what am I wearing, what am I gonna have for breakfast, all of that. But most of the decisions we make we have to subconsciously just move forward and do because we don't have the bandwid.

There's this graphic I always refer to and I'll describe it.

It's this woman who has like 30 post it notes all over her face and body and it's like pick up the kids from school, get pet food and she's just screaming.

But on top of all the decisions we're tasked with making, they also estimate between 8 and 10,000 marketing messages are received by consumers every single day. Only about 25% of that is actually going to be relevant to them in any single way.

So again, Spotify ads, driving down the road and seeing billboards, Instagram influencers, you're doing research for work and you're seeing sponsored ads. So if you think about yourself in the marketing context, you're actually really small and insignificant.

And I don't say that to be rude, I say it as a reality check because I think a lot of brands approach it from that egotistical perspective of everyone wants this, everyone wants to buy from this. We're going to get at this in front of as many customers as possible. However, think about yourself.

Are you really spending that much time during your day thinking about products and services? Unless you work in marketing, probably not.

So I think what's really core to understand with the Mind State model is that most people just want the easiest decision.

They're driven by a need to have this be easy, subconscious and not have to make all of these pros and cons list which are kind of directly juxtaposed by what a lot of brands do, which is what I call the better brand battle of now we added 10% more or it's five times faster or X, Y and Z. Most people that doesn't work with.

So I think when you can understand the customer's mind state and what it is that they need to hear or understand subconsciously, you are better able to Connect with them and your marketing has a chance to be much better, more effective and impactful.

Angela Frank: 00:05:12

I think that's so important, really just understanding how much noise there is in our day to day lives from the decisions that we have to make, but also the marketing messages that people are interacting with regularly and learning how to cut through all of that noise. And something you mentioned was it might not be meaningful to be five times faster or 10% better.

So what are some of the best ways that we can implement this understanding of consumer behavior in our businesses?

Sunny Dublick: 00:05:44

Sure, I think first and foremost, like I encourage everybody to dive deeper into this topic because it really is a rabbit hole.

But I think just even having baseline understanding of consumer behavior principles is a game changer as a business owner, as a marketer, anybody in this space I think can greatly benefit from it.

But if I take it a level deeper and think about how to apply it, I think it really, for me, the thing I want to advocate and inspire anyone listening to do is to not be afraid of marketing research. Because all it is is getting closer to your customer. And many people.

I mean, I always get the objection it's too expensive or it's too time consuming or complicated. And if you don't have a budget in order to hire an outside person to do in depth interviews and secret shops and surveys, all of that, it's so fine.

All I want to advocate for you to do is to talk to your customers. People love talking about themselves. They really do. You just have to ask them the right questions.

And you don't need to have a doctorate in marketing research to get really great information.

What I'm saying is that instead of asking people the hypotheticals of would you buy this or what would you want to have, you know, added to this product service? Ask them about their current behavior. So again, say it's like a toothpaste company. Tell me about your morning routine.

What point of your toothpaste being empty? Do you start to want to refill it when you go to the store? Do you already know what model or what kind of brand that you want to buy?

Do you have loyalty to the same kind of toothpaste? Do you regularly buy the same? Ask them questions that they can answer solid answers on based on past experience and performance.

Then you can get a better understanding of their behavior and utilize that to really be able to activate the appropriate mind state.

Angela Frank: 00:07:36

I love the example of toothpaste. Just taking something that's very mundane and showing how even something as basic as a toothpaste purchasing decision, you can learn so much from.

And so if you're listening, your product is a little more complicated than toothpaste. And so that means that there's even more that you can learn by really diving in and having these conversations with your customers.

So, so now that we're learning about our existing customers, what are some things to avoid when we're setting out to understand consumer behavior? Maybe speaking with customers or implementing it in our business?

Sunny Dublick: 00:08:13

I have a random fun fact. Toothpaste is actually the least brand loyal product that there is. There's no loyalty in toothpaste, which I find fascinating.

But if I'm saying kind of what not to do when you think about marketing, I think most marketers think that we're so smart and informed because we have access to so much data. And we do. It's great. I love data. I'm a huge, huge advocate for data. But we know how long somebody stays on our webpage.

We know what pages they went to. We don't know why they didn't buy. Right.

Angela Frank: 00:08:47

We don't.

Sunny Dublick: 00:08:48

There's so much information that we have, but an even greater kind of amount of information that we don't have. And I think that that's what's really important is to not mistake. And I've read this somewhere. Information for intimacy.

I think that we've kind of come to the perspective that we know so much about our customers because we have metrics on a dashboard and it's false because that's not what people are. People are not robots yet. We're in this AI time where we might be.

But I think oftentimes we want to make decisions based on data sets that we have of sales spiked this weekend and it's probably because of this. So we're going to do this again, right? And I'm all about advocating for testing and I joke all the time. Marketing is like the scientific method.

However, I want to caution not utilizing and becoming so overly kind of focused on the metrics that you have and leaving out the human component of your brand because I think it's really easy to do.

And again, the simplest thing is when you have questions, just start asking and become very curious and follow that lead and you can find much better answers than you'll ever find on G4.

Angela Frank: 00:10:05

I love that.

I think that when I'm interacting with clients, they're either all in super focused on the data or they're not using any of their data and they're like all in on the psychology and like trying to just think their way into a more performant marketing strategy when it seems like somewhere right in the middle where you're combining both is so important. And the other thing that I wanted to say is I love how you're, you're showing that there's more of a human element in the data.

A lot of times when I've set out to understand why people are like not converting in a funnel, asking questions creates so many new insights that you can't just think up yourself.

Looking at it from a marketing viewpoint, there have been a lot of times when you know, we've created a hypothesis like, oh, maybe they're not converting because the offer is not compelling enough.

But when you sit down and you actually speak with someone, you find out that there's a big thing that you're not addressing on the landing page that they needed to make that purchasing decision. And so by combining that data with the human element, I think is where you're saying the sweet spot really lies.

Sunny Dublick: 00:11:14

Yeah, I think that the best marketing is really about connection and I think that that's what we're missing in this really digital driven age.

I know that everyone's really excited about all of the capabilities with AI and all of that and automations and all those things and they're phenomenal.

Don't get me wrong, there's a million capabilities that they have for marketers, but at the end of the day we're still selling to human beings who don't want to be another metric or data point on your dashboard. Right. And I think that that's true.

No matter what you sell, people want to feel like they're getting the best for them and they want to feel ultimately like this is a no brainer solution. And I think that we make it as marketers far more complex than it needs to be when really we just need to get closer to them.

But the more data that we have, it's almost like we're going farther away from them. It's just the perspective that I see were so attuned to like, did we meet this goal, did we meet this metric?

And if I'm honest, half of those metrics don't mean anything.

And I'm, I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say that, but outside of like sales retention, some of those really key ones, it doesn't matter how many likes you got on a post. Did it do anything, did it move the needle any? Right. Like what does engagement really matter in the grand scheme of things?

Is that really what you need to be tracking? Like, I don't know, I just.

I feel like we're missing that element of actually talking to people while we think that we are and we're closer than ever.

Angela Frank: 00:12:47

I think that is so important. Just one, having the right goals and two, not forgetting about the human element behind it.

So speaking of the human element behind things, you are somebody who works with clients to help them grow their businesses. Is there a unique way that you've been able to leverage consumer behavior to help one of your clients grow, grow in the past 100%.

Sunny Dublick: 00:13:09

So this is actually part of my process. When I first started my business, I was just doing digital marketing execution, really. And I was like, there's a big part.

And my heart really always lie more in the strategic and research kind of area of marketing, which is what I've pivoted my business into.

But when I work with a client, I always say, I don't want to just give you a strategy or a marketing plan based on speculation of this could be cool, because that doesn't make me different than any other marketing agency out there. Right. I want to come to you and say, I know what we need to do based on actual research and talking with people that buy your product.

So I have a client that I worked with. They owned a e bike company, and when they first approached me, it was a referral. They said they needed help growing their Instagram.

And I was like, well, that's not really what I do, but let's dig deeper. Like, what are you really looking for? And like most people at sales, right at the end of the day, that's the lifeblood of the business.

We got to keep the lights turned on. And when we dug deeper into it, I was kind of like, okay, what I would like to do instead of just getting into execution is really do an audit.

Look under the hood of all the marketing efforts you've done to date. Get a feel for all of your metrics, sales, all of that, and do a quick survey with your current customer base.

When I got the kind of final information all back and in front of me, I was like, hold up. Every single person here, almost. I want to say, like, 80% were over 65. And I said something, and I was, you know, I'm presenting this.

And I was like, this is not what we. We're talking about Instagram, which is like millennial Gen Z. They were like, well, yeah, like, we just wanted to kind of grow our.

Our, you know, funnel and audience. I was like, that's completely fair. And you have a ripe audience that loves you, wants to buy from you.

And like, again, all of their reasonings underneath it, the things that they filled out in the survey was fascinating.

They were basically a retirement age and feeling like they wanted to be active, but they didn't have kind of, you know, the body of a 21 year old anymore to go mountain biking. They said it made them feel young again. It made them feel fun.

And the number one benefit was that there was this low bar because they had hip problems. And it was. They were looking for a bike with this low bar that no other company really was offering.

So when you got into the nitty gritty of it, you know, we talked about this. You have this audience that is so connected and wanting to buy from your brand, and you're literally in the other direction talking to somebody else.

When I created their strategy and marketing plan, it was a 180 from what we initially talked about.

And I received feedback from them that I think it was year over year they doubled sales for the same period because you're doing it based off of customer information, customer feedback, and what you know to be true they could have wasted. And then so many of my clients come to me and they say, I've wasted so much money on marketing that just didn't work. It breaks my heart.

Especially with small businesses, you don't have the ability to spend a ton of money on marketing.

But for me, the best thing is when you can make those connections and when you can act as a marketer, as that translator between the customer and the client.

Angela Frank: 00:16:17

I think that's so important, it's easy to fall into this trap of, well, I need to be expanding my market. I need to be attracting new people to my brand.

But chances are you likely haven't exhausted your existing market, the people who already love you and interact with your brand.

And so I think that that example was just perfectly illustrative of that because your client wanted to go expand into new channels and attract these new people. But there was a really real reason why all of their customers were loving and engaging with their product.

And like you said, they doubled their sales period over period. So they clearly hadn't tapped out the. Or exhausted the market. So that's. That's a really cool story.

And I think it just shows the importance of understanding consumer behavior and leveraging it to work better for your business. All right, so, Sunny, you are somebody who is really involved in the marketing space. You own your own agency.

It sounds like you're doing a lot of cool things for your clients. But I'm curious to know what's next for you?

Sunny Dublick: 00:17:21

Yeah, that is a great question. I wish I knew. No, I'm just kidding.

I think the thing that has been really on my mind and kind of my focal point this year is that I love kind of consumer behavior research strategy so much and I'm just such a curious person. The thing that I've been really working on is expanding my offerings abroad.

So the UK is currently where I'm trying to get some business, which has been really exciting. I just exhibited at my first show this year. There's.

But yeah, I just think for me, adding in the cultural nuances to different products and services and helping kind of the exchange of importing and exporting services to and from the US is something that's really lit me up. So that's where I'm kind of focused right now.

Angela Frank: 00:18:06

That is very cool and it sounds very exciting. So I look forward to following along as you embark on that journey.

If anyone is listening and they want to get in contact with you because they're interested in leveraging consumer insights in their own business or they, they just want to keep up with you online, where's the best place for them to do that?

Sunny Dublick: 00:18:27

Sure. So my website is sunnyduplick.com but I am most active on LinkedIn. That is the only place you will find me socially.

But I would love to, you know, connect with you and I answer all of my messages and yeah, that's the place where I tend to spend the most time.

Angela Frank: 00:18:44

Amazing. And I will link everything that you mentioned in the show notes.

So if you are listening and you are interested in anything that Sunny mentioned, it is there for you after the show. Sunny, thank you so much for joining us today. I thought this was a really insightful episode.

Sunny Dublick: 00:18:58

Thanks so much.

Angela Frank: 00:18:59

If you enjoyed this episode of the Growth Pod, please leave us a review. It helps us reach more founders and entrepreneurs just like you. Thank you so much for listening and I look forward to seeing you in the next one.